Tuesday, November 22, 2005

Welcome to the Joey Joe Joe Show

This sign was enough to get a couple of guys kicked out of the Raptor game last week. They weren't being obnoxious, distracting, or any sort of a problem. They simply put up this sign during stoppages in play. Security that kicked them out said that the section was complaining; yet no one in their section appeared to be. In fact, as they were being escorted out of the building, everyone was booing security.

In this case security exhibited a classic case of this is our answer, it's a blatant lie, but there's nothing you can do about it. Must be nice to be able to abuse power.

Speaking of stupid, here's something I've found out. I had my issues with the Vince Carter trade of last year, and I mentioned something that REALLY pissed me off about the trade, but could never find concrete evidence to prove me right.

Thanks to www.hoopshype.com I can see that the Raptors sit 12th out of 30 teams in terms of payroll. The sad sack Knicks have twice as much payroll it seems. Some real ugly contracts there. It seems that they're on the hook for Alan Houston's contract at about $20 million. Ugh.

Here's what I found out that irks me. The Raptors are paying Alonzo Mourning $4 million dollars over the next two years. He's only costing Miami 1 million and change. The third biggest contract on the Raptors this year is Lamond Murray. He's getting over $5 million from the Raptors and just over $1 million from the Nets, who he plays for.

Alonzo Mourning never played for the Raptors. Murray left the organization this past off-season and called the franchise incompetent in an article with a major New York newspaper.

Rob Babcock. Noticed you abandoned your blog on the Raptors website. You might as well put up your resume there instead. I'll admit that the draft picks this past season are turning out better than expected (considering people expected them to be worthless, it wouldn't take much for them to be better) but you're showing no sense of a plan for this team. At least Isiah Thomas has the excuse of being crazy; I don't think you're crazy. I think you're a rational man who just happens to be absolutely foolish as a general manager. I think Ed Stafanksi (GM of the Nets) summed it up best last year after the deal that sent Vince Carter to the Nets.

You never know if a team is going to say 'no' unless you ask them.

: to cause to be at a loss as to what to say, think, or do

As a side, there's a link at the bottom of the front page of the Toronto Raptor website to the NBA Fan Code of Conduct. The Raptors and Miami are the only two teams to have that link. To put it in perspective, the Detroit Pistons (home of the famous brawl between fans and Pacers) don't have a link.

Joey Graham's new nickname should be the Joey Joe Joe show.


Anonymous said...

My friend, you need to get your head on straight. That and read a bit more newspaper and follow the business aspect of this organization, as it's an area you seem to be very ignorant in.

1. The "raptorkiller" signage. They weren't kicked out for the sign. They were kicked out for their behaviour. Read the news again and come back again before posting your reply, here's why: The two sign holders were allowed to sit in their seats for 3 (yes THREE) whole quarters before they were booted. They were eventually booted for leaving their seats multiple times when warned not to, thereby violating code of security conduct in the ACC where you have to remain in your paid seats. Obviously people booed management when they got booted, because EVERYONE'S natural reaction (when they didn't know the whole story) would be that they were being booted for their sign, which clearly wasn't the case.

2. 'Zo's problem was something Babcock had no control over, the dumbass C didn't want to play for us. He screwed NJ, and he screwed Toronto, all in the name of contention beside Shaq. Period.

3. You are amongst some of the most naive Raptor fans i've encountered to date. You're failing to see Babcock's 3-year plan involving JG/CV31/Calderon (this year's rookies) along with our intended first round pick (steal in second round) Ukic who will form our youthful core around Bosh next season intact. Jalen comes off our books, allowing us to re-sign Bosh to max, and with Lamond and others off the books, successfuly pursue a big-name FA (or two).

Please consider researching before you write, it hurts our eyes.

Hossim said...

Although I do appreciate the time you've taken out to try and belittle my integrity, I have to call you out Mr. Anonymous. Let me start off by saying that I like to chat sports and usually differences of opinion lead to a collective increase in knowledge as information to back up arguments is passed along. But it seems to be a insult-heavy, fact-light argument that you're presenting here. The only facts in newspapers are boxscores.

Let's play the "who's more ignorant?" game. Just to set things straight, I have no problem being put in my place, because 90% of the time I am a fool. But being insulted when I'm not wrong, well, I mean I write and say a lot that makes me look like a fool, but being told that I'm ignorant when I'm not, well, that my friend, is simply rude.

1. You read the news. They lasted 46 minutes. Almost the whole game. You state that they "violated code of security conduct in the ACC where you have to remain in your seats". Semantics aside, clearly what was taking place by security was basic safety measures. Let me spell it out for you. If the Raptors were winning that game, those boys would have been allowed to stay in the arena. Since they were about to lose, well, they could be catalysts for trouble. That, and that only, is why they were booted. People leave their seats ALL THE TIME, you wouldn't be able to get beer if it was "violating code of security conduct in the ACC where you have to remain in your paid seats." Who are you? Do you work for the Raptors or ACC and have access to this "ACC code of security conduct"? They were being booted for the possible anger that could be incited, specifically because of their sign. When they tried to give it to others (or others offered to take it) the security guards, all 6 (yes SIX) of them ripped it out of their hands and away from the others wishing to hold it up. What I comment on was that the security official said to a reporter that several people were complaining. If people were complaining they would have been gone by half time.

2. True, Babcock had no control over the 'Zo situation. Raptors seem to pay guys who aren't playing for them all the time, it's clearly not a Babcock only thing. I just wanted to point it out, with some research and evidence, that Raptors are on the hook for 9 million this year between Zo and Murray, and 4 million next year for Zo. Feel free to pass that along to your friends in conversation without citing me. It will make you appear smart. You're welcome.

3. Insult me to start. Good. Still waiting for facts here to back up you're insults. I'm glad I'm so naive and that I have enlightened folks like you to set me straight. Oh, by the way, before you write a insulting sentence to lead into a paragraph, make sure, cuz this would be really embarrassing, make sure that the facts you present in your insult headed paragraph are right. Because it would be really embarrassing, say, if Jalen's contract wasn't off our books this year and we did have to pay him, say about $16,901,500 next year. Just a rough guess. And you are right Bosh is signed through until Jalen's contract comes up. But you know who won't be off our books? The 6 million dollar man, in this case, Alvin Williams.

And that big name free agent or two coming to town? It's not going to be this offseason, but next. Not to mention that it would be a first, so I'm waiting and holding my breath here. Because usually guys when they're free agents (Vince being an exception), they've got their bags packed to head out of town by game 64.

About Babcocks plan, thanks for telling me what I can and can't see. You mean our general manager is rebuilding around youth and draft picks? Wow. Fascinating. You must be a much smarter man then me to figure out all that complimicated business formulas.

I have no problem with rebuilding, I have problem with digging yourself a bigger hole then necessary, which I feel Babcock did in dumping Vince to the first team that asked.

It's quite sad really when you're belittling someone's intelligence, criticizing instead of creating, and you yourself don't have your facts right. My head won't ever get on straight, although I do appreciate your intentions. It comes from thinking for oneself. Facts however, those will be straight.

rf said...

Interesting post. I am an avid online gambler and fantasy sports player and place most of my bets online. I find the internet to be a great tool and even use resources like StatShark to help me make my picks. What a great sports forecastings tool.

Fayed said...

Hossim, he's right. Here's the proof, got it in an email (Raptors Insider). They were asked once before to calm down which they did but then they went out of line twice, so they got kicked.

Dear fan,

At Wednesday's Raptors game against the Philadelphia 76ers an incident took place where two fans were escorted from Air Canada Centre. Some media reports allege these two were ejected because they were displaying a sign that was critical of our general manger.

That was not the case. Had they been ejected because of their sign, their removal would have occurred in the first minute rather than in the 46th minute of the game.

The NBA has a Code of Conduct in place in all 30 arenas. These two gentleman were approached twice by NBA security personnel and informed that their conduct was interfering with the rights of other fans to enjoy the game. The second time they were warned for their misbehaviour, they were presented with a "Yellow Card" as stipulated by the NBA's code of Conduct.

Security personnel continued to observe the pair and upon receiving further complaints from fans about their behaviour, escorted them from the arena with two minutes remaining in the game.

These individuals were in clear violation of the following rules:

. Guests will enjoy the basketball experience free from disruptive behavior, including foul or abusive language or obscene gestures.

. Guests will sit only in their ticketed seats and show their tickets when requested.

People have the right say and express their point of view so long as it does not disrupt the fans around them. Security cameras in the building captured the entire incident and confirmed our belief at the time that NBA security acted professionally and appropriately.

Fan are always encouraged to express their point of view. However, they are reminded that in doing so the game experience must remain an enjoyable one for all.

Thanks and we hope to see you at Air Canada Centre,

Robert J. Hunter
Executive Vice President & General Manager
Air Canada Centre

Anonymous said...

Mr. Anonymous here,

Re: The insult heaviness, it's necessary since you still spew information which you claim to be factual, yet you still don't seem to understand the business. Here's a recap of your answers:

1. Read the e-mail letter sent by the ACC's gm above by Fayed, it's more than enough proof for your faulty conspiracy theory. As well, if someone is being escorted out of a facility like a sports arena, security has a right to remove anything on their person. It had nothing to do with the sign, plain and simple. They were given 2 warnings, what's so hard to understand about that?

2. You wrote: "True, Babcock had no control over the 'Zo situation" -- You just proved you were wrong, so there is no point in arguing further.. but you did, so let's break it down for you.

You wrote:
"Raptors seem to pay guys who aren't playing for them all the time, it's clearly not a Babcock only thing. I just wanted to point it out, with some research and evidence, that Raptors are on the hook for 9 million this year between Zo and Murray, and 4 million next year for Zo."
--> What? Firstly, Babcock had no control over both Zo and Lamond (who was traded), like you've agreed, so how the hell can we NOT end up paying them? Is your head on straight? Lamond was a brainchild of the Grunwald legacy, not of Babcocks inkwork in case you didn't know. Pass that on to your friends, it won't make you appear smarter because clearly you think you've got it all right.

You wrote:
"But you know who won't be off our books? The 6 million dollar man, in this case, Alvin Williams."
--> You seem dumber by the minute. A) Alvin is again Grunwald's signing, and B) Alvin picked up on HIS OWN PLAYER OPTION meaning we HAVE to pay him (again, because of Grunwald). You really really can't grasp the business aspect of this, it's quite sad.

You wrote:
"About Babcocks plan, thanks for telling me what I can and can't see. You mean our general manager is rebuilding around youth and draft picks? Wow. Fascinating. You must be a much smarter man then me to figure out all that complimicated business formulas."
--> Um.. ok. Apparently since you're arguing FOR the removal of management, your point is of no relevance. Your impatience for this team to rebuild in 3 years and your ignorance combined leave me laughing.

Stop confusing Grunwald's work with Babcock's, clearly facts are straight. And please, stop trying.

Hossim said...

Mr. Anonymous.

My faults do not lie in incorrect facts. They lie in an inability to convey the message properly to certain parties. Clearly it is not only you, as Mr. Fayed kindly posted the letter from Robert J. Hunter. I had read that letter previous to my posting, but thanks Fayed anyways.

I've figured out the problem. You drew an incorrect parallel from my initial post that somehow implicated Rob Babcock for the Alonzo Mourning contract situation. Asides from being the person who made that trade, he had no bearing on the eventual outcome which was quite unfortunate for the Raptors. I just wanted to find out if we were paying Alonzo money, like we did with Yogi Stewart, like we did with Hakeem. No one had mentioned it to me, and I had a feeling we were. When I found out, I was more pissed off, sorta like finding out that you forgot to pay a bill and the interest the next month is a bitch. Which also goes to prove your theory of me being incompetent towards "business".

I also never implicated Babcock for the Murray signing, or the Alvin Williams option. I was just pointing out that with the Williams contract and Rose, I don't forsee the ability to pick up any big name free agent this off season, which you stated was part of the plan. Actually, you didn't say that directly, but you did mention Ukic and building a "core around Bosh next season intact. Jalen comes off our books, allowing us to resign-Bosh to the max" I agree with all of that, except that you continued the sentence with "and with Lamond and others off our books, successfully pursue a big-name FA." That's where I made an incorrect leap in judgment because I automatically assumed next season because that's when Murray comes off our books.

I also never said I was arguing for the removal of management, i.e. Babcock. I just called him a foolish manager. He's the one who started a blog this year, and it disappeared after a few games. I suggested that he post his resume instead. By that I meant that he seems to be shying away from the blog with the Raptors doing poorly, and perhaps he should just post his accomplishments instead.

By stating that he was showing no sense of a plan, well, he did come out and state that the team wasn't going to win as many games this year as they did last year. so I guess in terms of forcasting, that could pass for a plan.

Could he have gotten more for Vince? Probably, hence the bigger hole than necessary comment. Rebuilding is a slow and sometimes painful process, and sometimes explaining oneself to random criticizers who misinterpret your comments is almost as difficult. Safe to say I hope I don't say anything ever again that grabs your attention. Please consider me intellectually inferior, and hang out with your mensa brethern. I wish I was being sarcastic, but I'm not, I mean it. I'm dumb, don't waste your time on me.

Finally about the fans. It is not the Raptors or the ACC decision to kick them out. It lies in the hands of the NBA. You called it ACC. You should admit your mistake. Hunter's letter posted by Fayed was just a p.r. thing. It doesn't matter, I wasn't there, you weren't there, Fayed wasn't there. I just, again brought it up in my original post because I believe that security was lying about the complaints. I've been to Raptor games, and usually when we're losing by a bit at the end of the game it's fun to watch a couple of guys make asses of themselves. But there are some fans who are more conservative, and for them there are seven words that you should never hear on television or the radio, because words are more vulgar than actions.

As for my so called 'faulty' conspiracy theory, well if I want to be a raving paranoid lunatic, you should just sit back and enjoy my kamikaze mission into crazyville.

You seem to be intent on saying that I'm wrong. Ok, I'm wrong, I'm an idiot. I'm a dumbass. And I will no longer say stupid things. That's a lie, I will continue to say stupid things because I am stupid.

Actually, I'm not so stuck up that I'm afraid to make mistakes, or say stupid things. I'm glad I'm an idiot, because then it makes people like you, as you said "leave you laughing".

I never said Babcock should be fired. I never said that he did anything, asides from make a trade that removed Vince Carter from the organization. I think that's pretty accurate. The fact that you are reading these things in my writings leads me to believe that I left a lot up for interpretation, and if you chose to interpret it that way, then perhaps you should take a look at your own perceptions. Maybe you want him gone.

As for the business aspect of this. I don't really have the energy to try and convince you otherwise. You're right; I don't know how I manage to put my pants on in the morning because I'm so dumb. Happy?

Good day to you sir.

truballer said...

yo i have season seats... i saw them they were rowdy but were funny to look at first, everyone was laughin. i also saw security go to them a few times because they were going lower than they were supposed to from their seats. i've been kicked out for doing that too before, so there's no reason to think acc didnt act for security measure

peace, andy

Jason said...

Aside from anonymous' stupidity in insulting you, Hoss, he's correct in the money issues here. Those guys were all a part of Grunwald's plan, saying the team is directionless because of Babcock is baseless, aside from the Hoffa dispute. We got rid of Vince (cancer), got 2 great picks in return (one of which comes next year), and the team is headed in the right direction next year with the pick coming in and Jalen going out.

Semantics aside, one could pass judgement over your insults towards anonymous poster just recently too. Anonymous was right in just about every factual account re: your posts, but you could have taken the high road instead of giving him what he wanted --you to take it personally, which you very well did with a sarcastic riddled post.

Word to the wise.. never insult the home team unless you've got it all 100% down. There are many a knowledgeable Raps fans in this city that could easily dispute your theory (and I agree with the original reply to your post, it is a non-factual theory).

rkm1990 said...

To the author: I took issue with your blog posting too (almost everything you said pointed to the fact that you probably know more about curling or cricket than basketball), but there's no point in breaking it down when the anonymous guy wrote everything I was thinking too (on the fact side of things). I wouldn't get too offended by the anonymous guy though.. he's probably a passionate fan like the diehard leafs guys we have in this city.

Iqbal said...

Anonymous, as ignorant as the blog post is, there's no point wasting time replying to it because he makes no sense to me either.

Anonymous said...

This post is probably the best argument I've ever seen against free speech. My God, I want my 2 minutes back that it took to read that garbage. Please, to the writer, get an editor or some other form of censor who can keep your drivel from being exposed to the masses.

Stick to video games.

Hossim said...

I can't believe how popular I am. I feel like the prettiest girl in the school. tee-hee.
I love you all too. Please keep reading. Tell your friends. I'll be here all night. Try the fish.